A Little Too Painful To Watch
题目：看得不太爽
I'm going to give my honest opinion about the hundreds of threads I had to watch because of this TI4:
在看了千百个Ti4的吐槽贴后，我来总结并发表下自己的看法。
Suck it up!
麻烦别再抱怨了！
Since I already read way too much about this, I came here with the idea of why many people that didn't like this TI:
看了那么多的吐槽贴，我先来说说为什么那么多的人不喜欢这次TI
Butthurt fanboys: "[Insert name of your favorite team here] didn't make it to the main event and it was unfair because of the format of the groups. Had it been the last format I'm sure they'd have made it into the finals". With some minor this is 50% aprox of the reasons why people hate this TI. Well... there's nothing to say about this people other than root for your team to play better next TI (or even next tournaments). Either that or pray for chinese teams to lower their stardards so next time they'll be beatable. The other 50% of complains are spread between people wanting more hype to the finals, chinese haters, Valve haters, Icefrog haters, etc.
首先是那些因为支持自己喜爱战队而输了菠菜的粉丝：“全是比赛赛制的锅！”因为这个理由讨厌这次Ti的大概占了50%。对于这样的人没啥好说，只能希望你们所支持的战队可以在下次Ti努力加油，或者祈祷中国战队水平集体跳水。剩下50%的人的抱怨理由主要在总决赛无聊，单纯不喜欢中国队，单纯不喜欢V社以及单纯不喜欢icefrog。
Now I'll give my opinion about this TI:
下面是我对这次Ti的看法：
Format: Not bad. As I read in some other topics, even a Bo2 is a little more fair than Bo1 between each team (but... COME ON. There where 15 BO1! your team had to win at least 6... that's kind of fair). That being said, making groupstage important was good enough to make teams really tryhard in most of the games (many, enjoyable). I think the idea is good in general and most of the games were really interesting.
赛制：还可以。当然也有人说小组赛的Bo1可能不太公平，也许Bo2会好些。这次的小组赛的赛制使得小组赛比以往更重要，演员普遍少了一些，比赛也更具观赏性。我觉得这个小组赛赛制挺好，而且大多数的小组赛比赛也很精彩。
Patch: A new patch WILL COME. I honestly think people is starting to think what VG or Newbee do is very easy. Ganking with two supports correctly, making the right calls of when to push, when to teamfight in the early game with just some of the items completed and at the maximun of the heroes capacities is NOT EASY. I bet most of teams can't do it correctly, that's why they don't do it. There are ways to counter it, I'm sure, but TI was way too short for any team to experiment trying to discover how. Since it's not evident and doesn't make the game too exciting, I think Icefrong is going to be forced to make a patch to make most of people able to survive deathballs.
修改：我们马上会看到一些对游戏的改动。我觉得很多人认为VG和Newbee的打法非常简单：双辅助游走gank，速度报团推进。但是这种打法要求对于时机、装备组合和执行力有很高的要求。而这些正是很多战队所不具备的。我相信一定有方法可以克制这种速推冲脸战术，但是Ti就那么几天，战队们没有足够的时间去研究开发新战术。于是比赛有时候就变得非常快以及无聊。我相信icefrog马上会作出一些改变来解决这个问题。
Teams: This is the worst part of all. It seems nobody knew Newbee or VG :S. Either that or they didn't like them. Newbee was basically TongFu -KingJ +Xiao8 from last year where they lost to Na'Vi in a game I want to forget. Had they win their game maybe other would have been the story from last TI. You can say whatever you want about them but they did work hard and play their best. VG also was a very good team... nobody expected them to go this far in TI4 but they did because of the strat they used, and even when it was obvious what they were doing, you just couldn't stop them. They're too good.
战队：这个理由实在扯淡。似乎很少有人认识Newbee或者VG，于是粉丝自然就少。Newbee其实主要由上届Ti的tongfu战队组成（KingJ换成了xiao8）.Tongfu上届里通过一轮非常难忘精彩的比赛输给了Navi，如果他们赢了Navi历史可能会改写。随便你说什么，Newbee的队员非常努力并且打出了最好的状态。VG也是一只很强的战队，没人能想到他们在这次Ti上可以走这么远，但是他们却用速推这个唯一的战术做到了这点。这个唯一的战术让他的对手无能为力，无可阻挡的推进。
Final: Yes, it was the worst final, but only because last year finals had game 5. Games 1-4 from last year were not only outplays but joke games between [A] and Na'Vi. The best finals were between Na'Vi and iG Ti2 (still the best TI).
总决赛：这确实是最无聊的一次决赛。不过我觉得大家落差这么大的原因是上届Ti的第五场实在是太史诗了（前面四场就是A队和Navi在互彪演技）。我个人最喜欢的Ti总决赛是Ti2，Navi和IG之间的对决，而且觉得Ti2也是最好的一届Ti。
To sum up: The problem with this TI wasn't the fact that the finals were boring or that the format was wrong... the problem was that the hype was gone since most EU, and NA teams were gone AT THE BEGINNING. This is not TI4's fault, Valve's fault, Icefrog's fault, but teams faults. Your favorite teams didn't make it up to your expectations nor your rivals expectations. It's not chinese teams fault that deathball push strat was enough to win this TI4.
综上所述：大家吐槽这次Ti的主要原因即不是决赛太无聊也不是赛制不合理，而是因为大多数呼声很高的北美欧洲战队过早的离开。这不是Ti的错，也不是V社的错，更不是Icefrog的错，这是战队自己的错。你们支持的战队没有达到你们的预期。你们吐槽中国战队只会速推那是因为中国战队知道速推这种战术已经足够可以赢下比赛。
So... (I can't believe I'm saying this) I expect EU teams to recover and win some international tournaments so the hype is real... I'm personally going to root for Empire (totally dissapointed by them btw) or any team Black ends up in (if he goes back to Europe). Now please move forward and root for your team in the next event.
在结尾，我希望欧洲的战队可以重新站起来，我个人支持Empire虽然这次他非常令我失望，我希望小B神可以回到欧洲战队。大家一起来支持自己的战队重新启航吧！

的确挺中肯的=。=

半夜没人看

理智粉。

外国友人分析的很好很客观，辛苦楼主了，省得我自己看那些俚语看的累的要死

顶

说得很中肯 感觉nb vg的战队执行力确实够坚定 继续

马克

好像不能编辑自己之前的留言，那只能把一些网友回复放这楼了。
jgnpikipiki：
Excellent thread up voted.
顶楼主
Look we all had our teams we were rooting for.
我们都有自己支持的战队
But it doesnt mean that Newbee didn't deserve to win (they were on the brink of knock out at one stage).
但这并不意味着Newbee不配这次的冠军（别忘了他们在小组赛差点被淘汰）
Don't crap on VG also they did their best, replace them with any other team you want and Newbee would of still made a fool of them.
也不要再吐槽VG了，我相信他们也是尽了自己最大的努力。看newbee的状态，你随便放另外一直队到决赛和newbee打一样被打蠢。
Valve did a great job just maybe one thing I would want next year more games on the main stage maybe from bubble brackets onwards?
V社这次比赛安排其实不错，可能稍微不足就是主赛事的比赛偏少。
Dont be a sore loser guys, don't be racist enjoy what the game has to offer at the end of the day there is always TI5 to look forward to.
不要成为那个输不起的人，不要带有色眼镜看比赛，享受比赛，毕竟我们还有Ti5.

这差距

shadow.steps：
Somehow I agree with OP.
顶楼主！
People say last TI finals were better just because of game 5, the rest of the games were just stupid. That game 1 ... it was just painful to watch a stupid idea going that much wrong!
那些说上届Ti比较好的人仅仅是因为史诗对决的总决赛第五场，其他四场简直不能看。特别是第一场，简直逗。
And about the meta, other teams were free to try it, they just couldn't. In fact this is the hardest meta ever. Rice doto (what EG, DK, C9 and other greedy teams out there do, also in modern days called "midas gaming") was more entertaining? Rat from Alliance was more entertaining? You like PL illusions bashing people's base?
对于有争议的推进冲脸打法，有本事你也用啊，no can no bb。我觉得这个是最难的打法。无限farm流（也有人叫点金流，代表EG DK C9）就好看？A队的带球就好看？你喜欢看六神装猴子用数不清的幻象鲁你的基地？
It's even more funny. Just at the start of this tournament people were complaining about how the games are long with Naga's split push, now they've got 20 minute games full of team fights, and they don't like it, because DK wasn't at their best shape for 2 months already, Na`vi is 8th, [A] is not even in the main event and EG got obliterated by VG in 2 fast games that they couldn't control their push.
值得讽刺的是，这次Ti开始之前大家一直在抱怨小娜家的带线荣耀如何如何的无聊，现在你们又bb全程团站20分钟的局。我觉得你们是因为支持DK而DK并没有打出状态，支持Navi而Navi只有第八，支持A队而A队直接变A鱼，支持EG而EG却被速推打蠢才这么说。
It's sad that no one praises nice dota anymore, all they want is hype. Dendi throwing out hooks, s4 million dollar coil. No one praises a well calculated perfect game in which both teams have a time bomb on their side that must be defused before the 20th minute mark.
大家注意力都不在dota而在舆论上。Dendi的屠夫勾。S4的百万美金大。没人赞扬20分钟结束战斗的完美团比赛
The only thing that needs to be changed is I think how Roshan and dire advantage changes the pace of games that are even (if not advantageous to radiant before the roshan sneak by dire!).
我个人觉得唯一要改的就是肉山带来的天灾方优势。

themanner2：
You guys should be realize by now that by asking valve to nerf all others metagame except teamfighting (like rat, turtling), it's will result to the game where we just fighting each other and everything will be end by 1 or 2 push/teamfights, since there is no way of coming back around other than keep fighting. (No rat, no turtling)
大家应该发现再让V社削弱除了团战意外的其他体系（带球，守高拖后等）带来的后果就是打团战体系的队伍在输了一两次团后基本无望翻盘（带球，守高被削弱到难以扳回这样的劣势）。
In every sports, when it's become level of master, you will playing the basic. Just take a look at NBA vs. Street Basketball or World Cup vs Street Soccer. In the master level of sports there will be hardly flashy moment compare to amateur try-hard level. This rules is same for DotA. Player like Mu, Universe or Fy can use flashy technique when it's come to pubstomp, but in competitive scene they stick to most basic play. It is just plain wrong that community expect that when game become teamfight-oriented, they will be some super player use super flashy play and turnaround the teamfight from the losing situation and it will become very entertaining and exciting. It's other way around.
在所有的竞技体育中，当你达到了顶级，你就必须重回本质，就像NBA和街球，世界杯和野球（那个比喻楼主也不太理解，只能强翻）。在顶级比赛中很难有让你秀的空间，DOTA也是这样。像MU，Universe和Fy，他们在路人局中可以秀的飞起，但是在大赛中他们必须打得非常稳健。于是那些希望比赛中选手各种秀，各种一人打对面5个人是完全不切合实际的。
If you want game to be more entertaining, you must have some sort of coming back strategy, not forcing the game to be too favor to teamfight-oriented play. New meta game should favor other strategy (rat, turtling) as well as teamfight, otherwise you will get 1 or 2 teamfights that decide the game and then GGWP.
但是如果想比赛更有意思，战队就必须有备用方案。而不是说打不过团强行再找对面打。我希望战队们可以开发出一些新战术，可以结合各种多变的打法（团战，带线，守高拖后），这样你就不会因为前期一两次团战失败而早早GG。

还有惊奇的发现所谓DK内部员工发的那个帖子被人翻译发到外网去了。。。好强大。。。

顶，外国人还是有理智啊！比某些傻逼国人好多了

顶一下给大家看

搬运工不容易啊