我又来水经验了

先是八月刊 VOGUE US

Saoirse Ronan on Growing Up on Camera, the Changing Politics of Ireland, and Becoming a Queen
https://www.vogue.com/article/saoirse-ronan-vogue-cover-august-2018-issue
July 11, 2018 9:00 PM　by Sally Rooney|photographed by Jamie Hawkesworth
http://saoirse-ronan.com/saoirse-covers-vogue/#more-3385

Saoirse Ronan is describing the aftermath of her first acting job. “I went into this melancholic state for a few weeks,” she tells me. “I remember sitting on the bed with Mam next to me, and I was like: ‘I’m never going to have that experience again.’ ” The community that had come together on set and developed real bonds had now permanently dispersed. “It was that thought: That exact crew will never work together again. Never.” The project was an Irish television drama called The Clinic. When she appeared on it, Ronan was nine years old.
西尔莎·罗南正在回忆她的第一份演艺工作的结束后的场景，她告诉我说：“我当时陷入这种忧郁状态已经有几个星期了，我记得我和妈妈一起坐在床上，当时我想:‘我再也不会有那样的经历了。’” 在片场相识的小团体已经建立了亲密的关系，拍完戏却要永久地分开了。“当时我的想法是:我们这群人再也不会在一起工作了。再也不会了。”罗南所描述的这个项目是一部名为《急症室》的爱尔兰电视剧。当她出现在电视剧里时，她才9岁。

Now 24, Ronan has come to meet me in a coastal Irish town on a sunny afternoon in May. Ireland is facing a referendum to repeal its ban on abortion, and lurid posters of fetuses are everywhere. Ronan recently appeared in a video supporting the reproductive rights campaign—a long-growing grassroots movement that finally succeeded in pressuring the government to hold a referendum—and everyone is talking about it. In the café where we pick up lunch, we fall into conversation with our server about the upcoming vote.
在五月的一个阳光明媚的下午，24岁的罗南来爱尔兰海边小镇迎接我。爱尔兰即将举行全民公投，以废除女性堕胎禁令，到处都是可怕的胎儿海报。罗南最近出现在一个支持生育权利运动的视频中【视频A modern Ireland is unstoppable. Give women the choice and full ownership over their own body. https://m.weibo.cn/5428678727/4240284089088867】——这是一项长期发展的草根运动，最终成功地迫使政府举行全民公投——每个人都在谈论此事。在我们吃午餐的咖啡馆里，我们和服务员聊起即将到来的投票。在我们吃午饭的咖啡馆里，我们还和服务员聊起即将到来的投票。

Like me, Ronan was born in the 1990s and grew up in Ireland at a time of rapid social change. The dominance of the Catholic Church over state institutions was beginning to fall away, homosexuality was decriminalized, divorce became legal, and contraception was made widely available for the first time. In 2015, when Ronan was 21, the Irish electorate affirmed the right to same-sex marriage with a 62 percent majority. She remembers that day—“driving through north Dublin, and everyone had the flags out,” she says. “They were having street parties. It felt as though we had moved into a new stage. It was like we had woken up.”
像我一样，罗南出生于上世纪90年代，在社会快速变化的爱尔兰长大。天主教对国家机构的支配地位开始下降，同性恋合法化，离婚合法化，避孕措施也首次被广泛使用。2015年，当罗南21岁时，62%的爱尔兰选民支持同性婚姻合法。她回忆起那天——“开车经过都柏林北部，每个人都拿着彩虹旗，大家在街头举行派对。我们仿佛进入了一个新的阶段。就好像我们醒了一样。”

I ask if Ronan ever worried about facing a backlash for speaking her mind on abortion, long considered a particularly divisive issue in Ireland. “I just felt like that wasn’t important,” she says. “I know people who had to travel abroad in order to get an abortion, and that’s when I knew I would speak out.” But Ronan doesn’t engage only with policy concerns that touch her life directly. She also voiced her support in 2016 for the illegal takeover of an empty building in Dublin’s city center to accommodate the homeless; and she takes the time to recommend me Jeff Chang’s We Gon’ Be Alright, a book of essays on racial resegregation in the U.S. “I wouldn’t say I grew up politically minded,” she tells me, “but the older I get, the more in touch I am with what activists are doing—and the more I want to help them.”
我问罗南是否担心会因为在堕胎问题上发表自己的看法而遭到反对。在爱尔兰，堕胎一直是一个引起分歧的问题。她说：“我只是觉得有没有遭到反对那不重要，我认识一些人，她们不得不到国外去堕胎，而我也正是从那时意识到，我得大声说出来。”而罗南也并不仅仅关心直接影响她生活的政策问题。2016年，她还表示支持非法接管都柏林市中心的一座空建筑，以容纳无家可归的人;她还花了些时间向我推荐Jeff Chang的《我们都会没事的》（《We Gon’ Be Alright》），这是一本关于美国种族再隔离的文章集。她告诉我“我不会说我从小就有政治头脑，但随着年龄的增长，我越来越了解活动家们的所作所为——我也越来越想要帮助他们。”
(Just two weeks later, Ireland’s abortion ban will be repealed by a landslide. When I speak to her after the referendum, Ronan describes the elation she felt as the results were coming in. She was “so proud,” she says, “to see family and friends, and people I wouldn’t have expected to vote yes, choose to give Irishwomen their rights.”)
(仅仅两周后，爱尔兰的堕胎禁令将以压倒性的优势被废除。当我在公投后与她交谈时，罗南描述了她在投票结果出来时的喜悦。她说:“我非常自豪地看到家人和朋友，以及那些我没想到会投赞成票的人，选择给予爱尔兰女性她们的权利。”

But all that is still ahead of us as we walk through the small town outside Dublin that Ronan moved to from London. “Ireland is smaller than England, and I love it for that. I missed this,” she says, gesturing at the water and the sweep of coastline. Though she also lived in Dublin for a time, she grew up mainly in County Carlow, in southeastern Ireland, surrounded by countryside. “That never leaves you,” she says as we walk toward the seafront. “I feel most at home and at peace when I’m in the country. Though I like being in London too,” she adds. “There’s an anonymity. You can disappear into the human flow.”
当我们穿过都柏林以外的小镇，罗南从伦敦搬到这里，美丽的风景呈现在我们面前。“爱尔兰比英格兰小，我喜欢它。”她指着海水和海岸线说。虽然她也曾在都柏林生活过一段时间，但她主要是在爱尔兰东南部的卡洛郡长大的，周围是乡村。她边说边朝海边走去“那是永远不会离开你的，当我在乡下时，我感到最自在、最平静。当然啦我也喜欢待在伦敦。但在这里你可以籍籍无名，你可以消失在人流中。”

Behind us, families with small dogs make their way to and from the town center, and before us, yachts bob and settle in the waves. If Ronan really is impervious to her own celebrity, it might be because she doesn’t monitor her own press coverage. “If you’re not aware of how often you’re in a newspaper, then it’s like it’s not really happening,” she says. In her limited free time, she prefers to cook, hear live music, or go to the movies. (Tully was a truly “brave film,” she tells me; “anything Luca Guadagnino makes, I fall in love with.”) I find it hard to believe that anyone, especially at the age of 24, could be so uninterested in her own public image. Isn’t she curious? “I just get so anxious whenever I watch anything that I’m in,” she tells me. I ask what kind of anxiety she means. “I’m fine with the way I look now,” she responds carefully. “But I wouldn’t necessarily be looking at photographs of myself all day. I don’t want to become too consumed by the image of myself.”
在我们身后，带着小狗的家庭往返于市中心，在我们面前，游艇在海浪中漂浮摇摆。如果罗南真的对自己的名气无动于衷，那可能是因为她没有非常关注关于自己的新闻报道。她说：“如果你不知道自己在报纸上出现的频率，那就好像这不是真的发生了一样。”在她有限的空闲时间里，她更喜欢烹饪，听现场音乐，或者去看电影。（她告诉我：《塔利》是一部真正的“勇敢的电影”；卢卡·瓜达尼诺拍的任何一部电影，我非常喜欢。”）我觉得很难相信任何人，尤其是在24岁的时候，难道她对自己的公众形象不感兴趣吗，她不好奇吗？她告诉我：“当我在网上看到关于我的东西的时候，我就变得非常焦虑。”我问她是什么样的焦虑。她认真地回答道：“我现在的样子很好，但我不一定要整天看自己的照片。我不想太沉迷于自己的形象。”

Ronan earned her first Oscar nomination at age thirteen, for a disconcertingly intelligent performance in Joe Wright’s adaptation of Ian McEwan’s Atonement. In 2015 she was the heart of John Crowley’s Brooklyn, based on the novel by Colm Tóibín, and she won a Golden Globe this year in the title role of Greta Gerwig’s Lady Bird. Though she did not take home an Oscar for that performance, her pale pink ankle-length sheath by Calvin Klein was a hit. (Along with Lupita Nyong’o, Ronan is one of the faces of Raf Simons’s first fragrance for the house, Women.)
罗南在13岁时凭借乔•赖特导演的、由伊恩•麦克尤恩小说改编的《赎罪》中令人不安的聪明表演首次获得奥斯卡提名。2015年，她是约翰•克劳利所导演的、根据科尔姆•托宾的小说改编的电影《布鲁克林》的核心人物。今年，她是格蕾塔•葛韦格导演的《伯德小姐》的主角，并凭借该表演获得了金球奖。虽然她并没有因此获得奥斯卡奖，但她那条浅桃红色的长及脚踝的卡尔文·克莱恩（Calvin Klein）紧身礼服却大受欢迎（和露皮塔•尼永奥一样，罗南也是拉夫•西蒙斯推出的首款女性香水的代言人之一。）。

More recently, she’s played a young bride in Dominic Cooke’s On Chesil Beach (another McEwan adaptation) and Nina in Michael Mayer’s screen version of The Seagull. Though she’s constructed an impressive career without a superhero franchise perpetually screening at the multiplex, she isn’t utterly opposed to such a role. “I mean, I haven’t been offered any!” she says, laughing. “If a script came along that was strong, interesting, original, I would take it. A good script is a good script.” Her next film is one such: She plays Mary, Queen of Scots, in Josie Rourke’s biopic of the sixteenth-century monarch, out this December.
最近，她在多米尼克·库克导演的《在切瑟尔海滩》中饰演一位年轻的新娘(另一部由麦克尤恩小说改编的电影)，在迈克尔·迈耶导演的银幕版《海鸥》中饰演尼娜。虽然她没有超级英雄系列电影不断在影城放映，但她仍然创造了令人印象深刻的事业。她也并不完全反对饰演超级英雄，她笑着说：“我的意思是，我还没有被提供这样的角色呢!如果剧本很深刻、很有趣、很新颖，我就会接受。好剧本就是好剧本。”她的下一部电影就是如此:她将在今年12月上映的乔西·洛克导演的十六世纪君主的传记片中扮演苏格兰女王玛丽。

Ronan generally speaks of her job less as a career than as a calling. “It’s very intimate,” she says. “There are certain moments where it feels like it’s just you and the lens.” This almost private experience is connected to the years she’s spent performing: “It’s something that has been a very stable, consistent thing in my life. The camera has been the thing that has stuck around the longest.” Tóibín, who struck up a friendship with Ronan during the making of Brooklyn, points out that in her youth, “when everyone else was going to dances around Carlow, Saoirse was working.” Asked whether she ever feels sad or frustrated that she didn’t get a chance at a normal young adulthood, she says, “Of course when you’re a teenager you want to belong to something. For me that was being on a film set, so I worked a lot.”
罗南通常把她的工作看作是一种使命感（calling），而不是作为一种职业（career）。她说：“非常亲密，有些时候，感觉在世界上就只有你自己和镜头。”这种近乎私人的经历与她表演的岁月有关:“这是我生命中非常稳定、始终如一的东西。摄影机一直是最经久不衰的东西。托宾在《布鲁克林》的创作过程中与罗南建立了友谊，他指出在她年轻的时候，“当其他人都还在卡洛郡跳舞时，西尔莎在工作。”当被问及她是否曾因为没有机会进入正常的少年、成年期而感到悲伤或沮丧时，她说：“当你是一个十几岁的孩子时，你当然会想归属于某样东西。对我来说，那样东西就是待在片场拍电影，所以我在年少时就做了很多工作。”

Listening to Ronan speak, I’m reminded of what Tóibín says about the dynamic brilliance of her technique: “She’s always working out, ‘Is there a nuance, is there a way I can now do the opposite of what I’ve just been doing?’ ” Acting, she tells me, is partly about striving to counteract her own assumptions: “You need to push yourself out of that bubble of intuition and find a different way of being honest.” On the process of making Lady Bird with Ronan, Gerwig says, “We talked and rehearsed and collaborated, and the final film belongs to her as much as to me.” Ronan credits Gerwig with encouraging her to pursue her ambition of directing. Laurie Metcalf, who played Ronan’s mother in Lady Bird, tells me that she thinks Ronan “would be extremely comfortable behind a camera. She’s got a great eye.”
听着罗南讲话，我想起了托宾对她充满活力的聪颖的演技的评价:“她总是在努力，‘有什么细微的差别吗?有什么方法可以让我现在表演的与我刚才表演的不同吗?’”她告诉我，演戏在一定程度上是为了力求突破对自己的假设:“你需要把自己从幻想中的泡沫中挤出来，从而找到另一种诚实的方式。”在与罗南合作拍摄《伯德小姐》的过程中，葛韦格说:“我们交谈、排练、合作，最后的电影不仅属于我，也属于她。”罗南称赞葛韦格鼓励了她追求自己的导演抱负。在《伯德小姐》中扮演罗南母亲的劳里·梅特卡夫告诉我，她认为罗南“在幕后令人感到轻松。她有一双漂亮的眼睛。”

It was first announced back in 2012 that Ronan would play the lead in the biopic of the Scottish monarch, who returned from France as a teenager to rule the country of her birth. At a time when rival royal houses competed for the English throne, Mary represented a threat to the reign of her cousin Elizabeth I. Mary, a Catholic, was descended from the House of Stuart, while Elizabeth, a Protestant, represented the ruling House of Tudor. Five years after Ronan signed on, with theater director Josie Rourke set to direct and Margot Robbie to play Elizabeth, filming on Mary Queen of Scots finally commenced.
2012年首次宣布罗南将在苏格兰君主的传记片中扮演主角。玛丽从法国回国来统治她出生的国家。当竞争对手回到王室争夺英国王位时，玛丽对她的亲戚伊丽莎白一世的统治构成了威胁。【“亲戚”的原文是cousin，这个cousin太难翻了，伊丽莎白一世的父亲是亨利八世·都铎，伊丽莎白的姑妈玛格丽特·都铎是亨利七世的女儿，亨利八世的姐妹。格丽特•都铎嫁给斯图亚特王朝的苏格兰国王詹姆斯四世，他们的孩子是詹姆斯五世。詹姆斯五世是苏格兰女王玛丽·斯图亚特的父亲，所以，伊丽莎白是玛丽的表姑。】玛丽是天主教徒，是斯图亚特王朝的后裔，而伊丽莎白是新教徒，是都铎王朝的统治者。在罗南签约五年后，戏剧导演乔西·洛克担任导演，玛格特·罗比饰演伊丽莎白，《玛丽女王》的拍摄终于开始。

The artistic director of London’s Donmar Warehouse since 2012, Rourke came on board to direct her first feature principally because Ronan was involved. The two share an interest in Mary as a historical figure: Her famous beauty, her ingenuity, her sensational fate—she was betrayed, exiled from Scotland, and ultimately beheaded at Elizabeth’s decree—have long made her a focal point for historical narratives about femininity and leadership. The film finally came into being, Rourke suggests, because of Ronan. “So many of the people who did the film did it because they wanted to be in proximity to her, as an actor,” she says. “Even as an incredibly young woman, she has that power.”
2012年以来，洛克一直担任伦敦唐马剧院（London’s Donmar Warehouse）的艺术总监，她之所以成为电影导演拍摄她的第一部作品，主要是因为罗南参与了。两人都对历史人物玛丽有着共同的兴趣:她著名的美貌、她的聪明才智、她轰动一时的命运——她被背叛、被流放到苏格兰，最终在伊丽莎白的命令下被斩首——长期以来，她一直是有关女性气质和领导力的历史叙述的焦点。洛克认为，这部电影之所以最终制作完成是因为罗南。她说:“很多人加入这部电影，是因为他们想要以演员的身份接近她，即使罗南是一位非常年轻的女性，她也有这种力量。”