Alexander Alexandrov in his own words 1
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Russian coach Alexander Alexandrov has been prominent in the sport since 1983, when he came to the public eye as coach of the brilliant Dmitri Bilozerchev. He has over thirty years’ experience of coaching World and Olympic Champions both in the country of his birth and in his adopted home, Houston, USA. In his most recent position as Head Coach of the national women's artistic gymnastics (WAG) team for Russia, he quite simply resurrected his country’s gymnastics programme, re-establishing his team at the very top of the sport. Prior to Alexandrov’s appointment, at the 2008 Olympics, Russian WAG had walked away empty handed, without medals. At last year’s London Olympics, artistic gymnastics was one of Russia’s most successful sports. Alexandrov’s Russia won the most gymnastics medals of any country competing, and his athlete Aliya Mustafina was Russia’s leading medal winner at the Games. Alexandrov’s continuing contribution to Russian sport and to world gymnastics is immense.
Yet on his return to Moscow after the Games, Alexandrov faced an inquisition. Press reports favoured accounts from head coaches Valentina and Andrei Rodionenko as they led an assault on Alexandrov’s reputation that ultimately led to his resignation this spring. The unfortunate Alexandrov could barely get a word in edgewise as the Russian press focussed heavily on the sensational attacks made by Valentina Rodionenko.
Alexander is now working in Brazil as head coach to the national WAG team, and early in July he granted RRG the privilege of an interview. This interview took place thanks to the initiative and hard work of his daughter, Isa, who was determined that her father be given a fair hearing, and spent many long evenings and weekends, transcribing and translating the interview she undertook with him. It is long, but every word adds something to our knowledge. There is a lot here to learn about gymnastics, Russia, and the nature of certain human beings. I have found parts of it very moving. But enough from me.
For now, it is time for Alexander Alexandrov to have his say, completely in his own words. I hope you will be able to find time to read it, to comment, question, rant and laugh along with him.
The interview is in five parts; you will find the first in this blog post and can link to the others below:
2013年09月02日 16点09分 1
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RRG: What role does the Russian Minister of Sport, Vitaly Mutko (VM) play in deciding who will lead the Russian gymnastics teams? Does he have any influence over the team’s management? What was his viewpoint on your position?
AA: I have met with VM several times; I must say we had good and honest man-to-man conversations and I respect him very much. I don’t believe that he expected for things to take the turn they did with my dismissal and uproar in press. I think that the Rodionenkos didn’t expect that either, they probably thought that they could dismiss me as quietly as they had other coaches. Because the reaction was unexpected, I think that VM found himself in a difficult situation.
Who is the Minister? First of all, he must be a damned good politician. Sport in general is like war, and every day you are under attack. He is responsible for a lot daily, for all sport disciplines. His later interview was a good political interview, very neutral, he stated that he is sorry that Alexander left, but cannot do anything because Rodionenko is a senior coach and he has to listen to people he appointed in this position.
My only wish is for him to work on getting more and a much broader spectrum of information. He has capacity to do so, he can appoint several people if need be to gather more information from different resources (this is for any sport). That way he can make sure that the decisions made are adequate and are based on strong and broad information gathered from many sources, and not just one or two. So many decisions made by Rodionenko were wrong! For example:
I was shocked to witness that such a wonderful gymnast as Dementyeva, who has done so much for the sport and her country, and took titles at MANY Championships and has such extensive experience was not allowed to stay through the Olympic Games try-outs. After the first day she was told to pack and go home by VR. Dementyeva showed a very good result on the first day of try outs, placing well ahead of Grishina, but was asked to leave regardless. I tried to fight this, but was over ruled by VR of course. I strongly believe that this was a BIG mistake that cost us at Olympic Games.
I think that neither VM nor his people knew about this. So my wish for him is to be better informed which will give him more strength, respect and validity as a good politician. I understand that he does not have enough time to be in the middle of every problem, but he does have resources and it would be helpful to him to delegate his helpers to gather better “intel”, so to speak. That way he can make the correct decisions.
As far as having any influence over the management of the Russian gymnastics team, as of today the RGF is the main political body making the bulk of decisions in the sport of gymnastics. That’s just how things are: they make a decision, and VM gives his final approval or disapproval. His approvals (or not) are based on information he has, so that goes back to my previous statement and my wish for him to have better information … Also, perhaps because the Rodionenkos have such a close relative as Viacheslav Fetisov [see below], perhaps no one wants to get in the middle of the mess and it may seem easier to keep your hands clean so to speak. Let it go as it goes, everyone will sleep better at night.
As far as VM’s viewpoint on my position within the team is concerned, all I can say is that after Olympic Games, he gave me several honourable gifts personally from him; such as a personal plaque with thanks signed by him, a beautiful watch engraved on the back with a personal message and, most importantly, a medal of very high calibre for my work and achievements. I definitely feel that my country awarded me and showed me plenty of respect, and I am very grateful for this. Plus I was awarded a rank of Honourable Coach of Russia. I previously held a rank of Honourable Coach of USSR and RSFSR, but this was an incredibly meaningful award that I am very proud of.
So this is all very ironic to me: as far as honours and awards are concerned, I have plenty, but in reality - I am not needed. Go figure …
2013年09月02日 16点09分 5
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乐小年_ 楼主
RRG: What, if anything, does Viacheslav Fetisov have to do with Russian gymnastics, and how has he influenced its management over the past few years?
AA: I know that he was instrumental in bringing Andrei Rodionenko back to Russia as Main Coach. As far as Valentina is concerned - well, a mother-in-law is a mother-in-law, you know? We are all trying to do whatever is in our power to help our families, so I would imagine this is the same for him. I have absolutely no proof, but I believe that if it wasn’t for Fetisov, the Rodionenkos would be long gone from Russian gymnastics by now. Again, this is just my opinion and not based on facts, rather observations.
My only wish is for him and for other people at the helm of gymnastics in Russia to think more about the fact that Andrei will be 74 and Valentina 80 years old by the Olympic Games in Rio. I don’t suffer from “ageism”, but I don’t think they can do much for the sport (they haven’t in the past). This is their third term in their positions, and they are still looking for those guilty for the fact that there is no reserve in Russian gymnastics …
Russia needs to think about the future, who will replace the Rodionenkos? There should be some grooming of competent younger and talented people, who will be able to take the lead of gymnastics in Russia. I think the Rodionenkos holding everything in their hands can greatly damage Russian gymnastics in the future, they need to start to let go - so there IS a future. However with their personalities - I don’t see this happening, but I will be happy if I am proven wrong.
2013年09月02日 16点09分 6
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RRG: As Head Coaches, what influence do Andrei and Valentina Rodionenko have on the selection and appointment of coaches? Did they ‘take against’ you early on? We have heard about your meetings with them being secretly recorded, about coaches making statements denouncing other coaches, about gymnasts making recriminations about training conditions … what, in your opinion, is behind all of this? What influence do they have over the day to day training of the gymnasts? Any examples? What do you consider motivates their behaviour?
AA: Well this will be a long answer with quite a few examples … Hope everyone has time to read this through (laughing).
I would like to start by stating that when you read the Rodionenkos’ interviews in Russian press, they make it sound as though gymnastics in Russia has got better and stronger exclusively thanks to them; that they were the ones who made all the difference.
VTB : a 'wonderful sponsor' for Russian gymnastics
Yet Russian gymnastics got stronger very largely due to having a wonderful sponsor, VTB Bank, whose officials spent very big money year after year to restore Lake Krugloye, to support all the staff and gymnasts financially, to purchase the latest and best equipment, to provide very nice living quarters for staff and gymnasts, to provide balanced and nutritious meals, and so many other things. I am very grateful to VTB Bank for all the work they’ve done, and hope that their sponsorship and relationship with the RGF continues for many years.
When I first accepted the Head Coach position, I was told by many people working in Russian gymnastics that as soon as I started showing results, the Rodionenkos would start working on getting rid of me. I don’t think this is largely jealousy, but rather fear and the fact that during them being at the helm of Russian artistic gymnastics, there was no one to replace them at their post - except possibly me.
I have never wanted to replace anyone or had ambitions to take their post. All I ever wanted was to work the right way and have a green-lit road ahead of me to do things how they should be done. As long as I was provided with that as Head Coach, I was happy and content in my position. However over time, when I would not agree with decisions the Rodionenkos would make and would voice my disagreements in staff meetings or interviews, the Rodionenkos thought that my disagreement was to defy them and to replace them. That I had some kind of “hidden agenda”, which was never the case - just their sheer unprofessionalism and stupidity in making decisions.
After women’s team started showing good results, some journalists and other people started “raising me” with praise and making comments as far as me replacing the Rodionenkos which I think added more fear for them that I may be a serious threat. I repeat, this was never my wish, but I am certain that this was the main reason for getting rid of me, first as a Head Coach, and then simply my presence in Russia …
2013年09月02日 16点09分 7
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乐小年_ 楼主
Quite honestly, I still haven’t quite figured out what Valentina does. I actually asked her about a year and a half ago after her putting a veto on some instructions I gave “What type of coach are you, and what do you do exactly?” I don’t think she liked that very much. Some time ago Valentina received the title of National Coach. National Coach of any sport discipline should not work with National Teams on a daily basis. The National Coach works with different regions in the country and raises interest in sport, makes some facility decisions, and so on. These are the official functions of a National Coach. But Valentina is constantly at Lake Krugloye, and has been trying to be involved (since 2010) in the everyday training of the women’s national team.
Like I said before, I truly think that the men’s team is lucky because Valentina does not know anything about men’s gymnastics, so she keeps herself out of there most of the time. However, I’m sure you have heard that several men’s national team gymnasts were very unhappy with Valentina and her decisions, and wrote letters to the press and Gymnastics Federation complaining about her ways. Gymnasts like Anton Golotsuskov, Sergei Khorokhordin, a few others. All of these complaints were all over the Russian press, but the official position was: meh, gymnasts are always complaining about something, let’s not pay attention and let it go”.
It is also largely known that Valentina has her “favourites” and favouritism is blooming in Russian gymnastics. The “favourites” are always coming to her room in the evenings, and gossip or say whatever else about what happened and what they saw, and so on. They advise her in this or that situation, and because she isn’t competent in gymnastics, she listens to their advice (which is often self-profitable). This has led to many really bad decisions, often based on personal problems or personal dislikes of these “favourites”. Many people at Lake Krugloye and in gymnastics know about this, but everyone is afraid to say something. Because talking against Valentina will not end up well. We have a saying in Russia: “don’t bite the hand that feeds you”.
As far as Rodionenko taking “against me” early on is concerned, this is not so. When I first returned to Russia to be the Head Coach, Valentina and I would talk very often and she seemed to listen and respect what I had to say. I have never worked with her before, but we used to be on good terms when I was coaching Bilozerchev back in the 1980s. In those days, we would sometimes visit each other’s homes and were friendly with each other. When Dmitri Bilozerchev had some health issues, I would often talk with Andrei about his problems, so our relationship was good and open back then.
2013年09月02日 16点09分 9
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乐小年_ 楼主
part 3
I think this may be a good place to explain where the Rodionenkos come from, and the past history between us.
Some time ago, there was an extremely talented and legendary ice hockey player, Viacheslav Fetisov. Some of you may know that Valentina Rodionenko’s daughter, Lada, is Fetisov’s wife. After finishing his career as an NHL player, he was asked to return to Russia by President Vladimir Putin, and was given the post of Minister of Sport in Russia. Fetisov worked in this role for some time, but before the 2008 Olympic Games in Peking he was dismissed. However, he is still very close to the President and the ruling party in Russia. As I mentioned before, Fetisov played an important role in the Rodionenkos’ return to Russia, and in supporting their continuing position of power there.
As you may know, the main coach in gymnastics for a long time was Leonid Arkayev. He was a somewhat difficult person to work with because he was very independent and made decisions on his own, and also it was a very difficult time in Russia: not enough money for sport, difficult political situation and so on. During that time, the training facilities were in a very bad shape but nothing could be done about it, morale was bad, and when everything around is bad, the results are going to go down as well. Which is what started happening.
Obviously the lack of investment and other incentives in the sport of gymnastics had a snow ball effect all over the country. Gyms started to close, coaches started to leave because people were not getting paid, the gymnasts were quitting gymnastics, or those who stuck around had a very hard time training properly because the facilities were in a very bad shape and often gymnasts did not have proper equipment to train on. So after some time of this destruction in country and sport, Fetisov decided that Arkayev was not working as well as he had in the past, and dismissed him from his position in 2005. He replaced him with his father-in-law, Andrei Rodionenko, as main coach.
It is useful at this point to remember some more history about Rodionenko. Few may know or remember that many years ago Andrei Rodionenko was a Head Coach of senior women’s team, all while Arkayev was the Main Coach over both women’s and men’s teams.
Leonid Arkayev: he invited Alexander Alexandrov to become WAG coach in 1988
In 1988-1989, Arkayev asked me to become Head Coach of the senior women’s team, therefore replacing Rodionenko. I was quite surprised, since I worked with men at that time, but accepted the new challenge. The main reason stated for replacing Andrei Rodionenko was that only a year before the Seoul Olympic Games (in 1987), the women’s team competed very poorly, losing at the European Championships, which were held at home in Moscow. And to top it off, the team lost the World Championships that Fall in Rotterdam (which is ironic if you think about it). The guys competed beautifully (including my personal pupil Bilozerchev), but the women lost as a team, as all around, and did poorly in individual events.
So, to fix this bad situation somehow, Arkayev was working very hard, daily spending first half of the day at the women’s team workout, and afternoons at the men’s team workouts; just to try to raise the workability and morale of both teams. Keep in mind that this is only a year before the Olympic Games. At that point it was understood by everyone that no matter how the girls competed at Olympic Games, AR had not risen to the challenge of being Head Coach of the senior team, and he would be dismissed from his position. I have read interviews where AR has stated that “he was replaced undeservingly” and that his team “won Olympic Games”, but let’s be honest, the last year before Olympic Games - it was Arkayev who was working with the women’s team, not Rodionenko. Please understand that I speak about all of this as I saw it first hand in the gym.
2013年09月02日 16点09分 10
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乐小年_ 楼主
I feel that I acted as a gentleman when I replaced Andrei. I understood how difficult the transition would be for any coach, so I offered to lead a couple of training camps at Lake Krugloye together, (each training camp is roughly three weeks long), just to ease the transition and to help him leave with dignity. I also always tried to support him when he was working at other gyms, and would visit his workouts and try to stay on cordial and friendly terms with him as much as my schedule allowed. After some time we started having problems, because several coaches who had worked with AR told me that AR had banned his gymnasts from the camps held at Lake Krugloye, to the point of using “disciplinary actions” towards those gymnasts who wanted to participate and to try out for a possibility of making a national team. Needless to say we stopped seeing eye-to-eye. I also want to point out that even though Valentina held a title of “Head Coach” at that time, it was on paper and she had a purely administrative function. Valentina has not actually coached a day in her life. Some time later they left for Australia. They were one of the first coaches to leave Soviet Union to work overseas.
As I mentioned before, when the Rodionenkos decided to demote me, this was done illegally since my contract was not with them (they were under contract themselves). My contract was with the RGF and Ministry of Sport, and their signature was nowhere to be found on my “demotion”. I was ready to leave right away because this whole situation was a slap in my face, but then again, my contract was until the end of December. Plus, I was asked to hold on and be patient. I also understood that my acting just as Mustafina’s personal coach would create plenty more trouble for Aliya (which ended up being true), I will touch on that more later.
In many interviews around the time of my demotion, VR kept on saying that this was a “separation of titles”, that there were no bad feelings and nothing personal. I can honestly say that the lack of good relationship between us was a catalyst for my demotion and it was completely personal.
I would like to touch on that: in my contract, there were certain things that I had power to do as Head Coach, such as decide how many works outs to have per day and work-out length; whom to invite to any training sessions or camps, and so on. The Rodionenkos started to veto my decisions, and I feel this harmed the team and also undermined my position. Exactly the same thing had happened to Oleg Ostapenko, who tried very hard to work under the Rodionenkos for two years, but had to resign as he simply could not take it any more.
Also, any newspaper or magazine article that had anything positive to say about me –the Rodionenkos gave very negative feedback and were in attack mode, trying to minimize anything I did in my life or work. VR has definitely been the “mouthpiece”, but Andrei always let her. He is a quiet one, but nevertheless a pretty rotten individual as I see it.
There is a gymnastics magazine in Russia, Gymnastika; it comes out roughly every three months. In every issue, there are interviews about the Rodionenkos, their pictures and so on. They make it look like the gymnasts have no personal coaches, no choreographers, no apparatus specialists who are working with them, just the Rodionenkos. This is actually quite absurd, and before London, there was a booklet put out for PR purposes. It had Andrei Kostin [President of the RGF and of sponsors VTB] on the cover, the two Rodionenkos, and the gymnasts. No information whatsoever about the Head Coaches for either the women’s or men’s teams, no information about any other coaches. It’s as if all of the gymnasts are coached by the Rodionenkos personally. However, when something goes wrong – the Head Coach is the guilty one.
Another fact-when the women’s team won the World title in 2010, for the first time in many years, President Putin invited everyone to a private Gala. Obviously I am not in charge of making the list of attendees. So when the time came for all of us to head out to the Kremlin, one person (don’t want to name names) told me: “I was fighting for you”. When I didn’t understand what he was referring to, he said that Valentina Rodionenko wanted to take me off the list.
2013年09月02日 16点09分 11
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乐小年_ 楼主
Part 4
To go back to question in hand - Valentina was the main initiator of inviting me to come and coach in Russia. Like I stated before, the Rodionenkos were in deep you know what after the previous (2008) Olympic Games. They needed to invite “big names” to coach and to do all the work. The Rodionenkos needed to prove to the Ministry of Sport and the RGF that they could “fix” the problem. So when I first started, at our coach meetings Valentina would point me out and say to the rest, “Alexander is the Head Coach who was instrumental in our team winning the Olympic Games” (referring to Barcelona). So in the beginning Valentina would put me on a pedestal because she needed that. But after a while, any coach who does not repeat what she says and kiss her behind becomes an enemy. Valentina is used to being the boss, and likes flattery very much. She completely destroys her enemies.
I started to become an enemy when I started disagreeing with her. The main reason for my argument was the fact that as a Head Coach, I was able to make independent decisions and had certain power over say, for example, which specialists to invite to work with the team, the structure of daily workouts, the order of gymnasts competing, which competitions the team should participate in and so on. All of these clauses were written in my contract and were also common sense and something expected from a Head Coach of any sport. When Valentina started overstepping her boundaries and getting involved in my training process and putting a veto on my decisions -obviously I didn’t like it and was not going to be quiet about it.
There were a number of events that gradually worsened my relationship with the Rodionenkos. The first BIG red flag happened about three weeks before the World Championships in Rotterdam. We were already in Holland, in a town called Waalwijk, for a small meet that was a good way to check the preparedness of our team before World Championships. Some coaches didn’t like it for whatever personal reasons, and started telling Valentina all kinds of s**t. This was one of the evenings of “favourites” visiting her. I happened to walk down the hall by her room, and heard Valentina scream, “I will not allow Alexandrov to become the second Arkayev!” She feared the fact that I was the one to find these competitions and the fact that I had made an independent decision as Head Coach, without her.
Code of Points Clash
Another thing happened that proved to be a point of argument between me and Rodionenko: some time in 2010, I came to the realization that we should create our own “inside” rules besides the FIG rules, just for ourselves at home. Sometimes some older gymnasts don’t want to do the difficulty required by FIG Code of Points, so it was my idea to create our own Code of Points just for coaches, in order to raise the overall difficulty of any given programme.
This was not just “my decision”, this was a project discussed with other coaches and also accepted by the RGF. So after it was accepted, the coaches started working by our “inside Code of Points”. At all Russian Championships, judges started to show two scores: one for the International Code of Points, and one for the Russian Code of Points. Those gymnasts who started showing more difficulty were supported and awarded by the RGF. This helped tremendously to raise interest not only for gymnasts but also for the coaches - everyone wants to be rewarded. I think this was a very successful programme for our gymnasts, and at that time AR also was in full agreement with it.
However, in 2010 during the Russia Cup in Chelyabinsk (about a month before Worlds) there was a problem. On the first day the gymnasts competed by two Codes of Points, but on the second AR came up to me and said “let’s not use our inside code of points any more”. I told him he was crazy, he should have raised this question half a year earlier. You don’t do this in the middle of competition; plus competing by the Russian Code of Points and being awarded had become something to strive for and to be very proud of. Gymnasts and coaches were working very hard to achieve this status. I was at a total loss, so I asked him why. He said, “well, let’s just go by the International Code of Points so we can better see who can make it to the National Team”. I told him “I think everything is already pretty clear, plus we don’t have that many gymnasts and you can already see who can make it and who cannot”. (Note: at that time the Russian Code of Points had much higher difficulty than FIG Code).
Imagine that you were watching a soccer match, and all of a sudden in the middle of the game - surprise! The rules have changed! Going by our code of points - Aliya was two full points ahead, and by the International Code, she may have been 1.5 points ahead, a huge difference in gymnastics, and what a wonderful reserve to have! Plus a few other gymnasts were well ahead also, so to me - it was as clear as day which gymnasts would make it to the national team. That was so absurd to me and got me so angry that I expressed myself in a few choice words.
2013年09月02日 16点09分 12
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乐小年_ 楼主
It is my opinion that the sooner Rodionenkos go from Russian gymnastics, the sooner Russian gymnastics will be able to breathe …
Master of Sport Morass
So, you have read here just a few small incidents, the kind of things that were happening all the time, and that undermined the smooth running of the team and its morale, and that made it incredibly difficult for me to exercise the full powers of my job. I had already made my decision to leave a few days before the last Gymnastics Presidium held at the end of May. I asked to be included in the participant list for the Presidium, and even then there were conflicts. The main issue being voted on was setting new normative standards by which to award a title of “Master of Sport” to gymnasts. Let me explain the importance of this title so that everyone can understand the way things work in Russian gymnastics.
Currently Russian gymnastics has a problem with a lack of high-level gymnasts. We have a very desirable and honourable title for gymnasts in Russia called “Master of Sport”. Historically, to receive a Master of Sport from the Government, the gymnast had to pass very highly set criteria. The coaches are dependent on their gymnasts showing high results, because if they have trained a Master of Sport gymnast, it looks great on any coach’s resume and allows a coach to be employed much more easily and for longer term. Plus there are some mo
neta
ry awards given to coaches who have trained a Master of Sport gymnast.
Those gymnasts awarded a Master of Sport, have a green light to be accepted into good college or University. So, after finishing college, those wanting to stay in gymnastics can return to the gym and coach and make a difference for the future generation. Those who cannot achieve a normative programme to be awarded a Master of Sport end up not being needed or wanted in Russian gymnastics. So they leave the sport completely, taking other career paths to provide for themselves and their families. So the current system itself has huge problems and holes as far as retaining professional gymnasts and future coaching reserve. On the other hand, adjusting the normative programme to make the Master of Sport award accessible to more gymnasts would mean that more people stay in the sport, adding to the ranks of coaches who could begin to bring up the next generation of talent, and so on.
Even during the Soviet times, there were cases when the Master of Sport was awarded to some gymnasts even if they didn’t qualify, simply to retain professional gymnasts in the sport and to provide some type of “tomorrow” for future coaching staff across the country. The Rodionenkos have no concept of reality; they never had to start from scratch. So Andrei decided to argue against changing the standards, saying that it was not necessary. All those present at the Presidium looked at him like he was crazy, and started to argue back that AR had no idea what he was talking about and had no concept of reality of current situation. The main point (which I have been arguing for years), is that the standards for awarding Master of Sport for those gymnasts on the National Team and for those who are training somewhere in Kazan, for example, simply CANNOT be the same. The level of difficulty cannot be compared between National Team and independent gym. The system should be somewhat similar to the USA programme. Let young people take gymnastics, and create different levels as in the US. Those who show high level of talent, should be able to go on, those who compete at levels 9 and 10 (similar to US) should be proud of their achievements and still given the opportunity to have a future in the sport. There are many talented coaches around the world who were not elite gymnasts.
I was shocked to hear Andrei Rodionenko arguing against changing the rules and broadening the Master of Sport programme. He worked in Canada and Australia, where those teams may have one or two good high-level gymnasts, but place tenth or twelfth as a team. So what are those gymnasts to do? If they are not able to receive a college scholarship, no other award for their years in sport, years of hard work, pain and injuries, why would they stay? Why would they want to become coaches?
So after three hours of arguing back and forth, the Gymnastics Presidium officials decided to change the standards for awarding Master of Sport - thank God for that. But the fact that the Rodionenkos don’t understand the importance of retention really shows their lack of understanding of the current problems in the sport.
2013年09月02日 16点09分 14
level 7
乐小年_ 楼主
有一些图片删掉了 因为一直转存失败
2013年09月02日 16点09分 17
level 10
辛苦辛苦
2013年09月02日 16点09分 18
level 10
可以得话,大家都看看。反正我是相信大家英文水平都足够看这文了,就是有点长。
2013年09月02日 16点09分 19
level 7
[花心]大家慢慢看~不会告诉你们我还没看完[笑眼]
Aliya became the “work horse”.
2013年09月03日 06点09分 21
我也没看完
2013年09月04日 10点09分
level 6
昨日刚看完。。。
比我想像中黑暗。。就因两老头。。。
2013年09月03日 06点09分 22
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