level 12
Ektele💫
楼主
http://www.reddit.com/r/EQNext/comments/1kd1pe/class_roles_think_lol_vs_ai_bots/
I'm going to take a leap here and assume that most of you are familiar with League of Legends or some other MOBA (DoTA, Smite, HoN, etc).
I've seen article after article out there picking away at what was said during the class panel and trying to guess how the AI (as smart or as dumb as it is to be tuned) will make up for the lack of a dedicated tank, healer, dps, (crown control) combination. And, the first thing that keeps jumping to my mind is the MOBA genre and how fights work within it.
You still have tanks. You still have supports. You still have dedicated DPS. However, the AI (or other opponents) know enough to not just run face first into the "tanks". But, part of the kit of a good tank (or bruiser) is their disruption ability. Now, the AI has to think about whether it's a better decision to damage the person they can reach, or to take a lot more damage (and risk dying) before getting to a more desirable target.
Now, let's take this one step further and quit saying the word "tank" and saying the word "melee". And instead of healer let's say "support". Now, we have the same group, but the AI has to decide between a melee who can do decent amounts of damage, but is in their face, or a ranged who can do higher damage, but requires gap closing. Or chase the support who can constantly kite them while the melee and ranged are doing damage.
This is what I imagine the "destruction" of the holy trinity to be while still maintaining player roles. I think it's just a progression of AI - sure, some creatures may be stupid enough to just attack the first thing they see, but if you were fighting human-equivalent thinking NPCs, you would expect them to be smart enough to assess threat and invalidate the idea of a true tank. And, without a true tank, I don't think you're going to see the idea of a true healer. Support skills that limit mobility, etc will become much more important when there is no longer one damage sponge to be clicked on.
edit - partial confirmation by /u/SmokejumperSOE : Nailed it! You are on exactly the right path here. Now start to consider the potential of how the AI can interact that way and what it does for group dynamics and you'll start seeing why we think this is going to be a BLAST. (Not that we're a MOBA, of course. Just being clear. ;)
Double Edit - Just to be clear my point is we will still have roles, but they will be redefined. Your "tank" will be more about disruption - with smarter opponents a meatwall really serves no purpose; why would any mild-intelligence creature attack it instead of bypassing it unless the meatwall was given real threat when avoided? Your healer will still heal, but dedicated heals become less important and support skills become more important. If you want to read up on how toxic dedicated healers can be to a game I advise reading from a real designer and not me (http://www.rtsguru.com/game/435/article/3433/Morello-Talks-Soraka-and-Healer-Classes.html).
2013年08月19日 10点08分
1
I'm going to take a leap here and assume that most of you are familiar with League of Legends or some other MOBA (DoTA, Smite, HoN, etc).
I've seen article after article out there picking away at what was said during the class panel and trying to guess how the AI (as smart or as dumb as it is to be tuned) will make up for the lack of a dedicated tank, healer, dps, (crown control) combination. And, the first thing that keeps jumping to my mind is the MOBA genre and how fights work within it.
You still have tanks. You still have supports. You still have dedicated DPS. However, the AI (or other opponents) know enough to not just run face first into the "tanks". But, part of the kit of a good tank (or bruiser) is their disruption ability. Now, the AI has to think about whether it's a better decision to damage the person they can reach, or to take a lot more damage (and risk dying) before getting to a more desirable target.
Now, let's take this one step further and quit saying the word "tank" and saying the word "melee". And instead of healer let's say "support". Now, we have the same group, but the AI has to decide between a melee who can do decent amounts of damage, but is in their face, or a ranged who can do higher damage, but requires gap closing. Or chase the support who can constantly kite them while the melee and ranged are doing damage.
This is what I imagine the "destruction" of the holy trinity to be while still maintaining player roles. I think it's just a progression of AI - sure, some creatures may be stupid enough to just attack the first thing they see, but if you were fighting human-equivalent thinking NPCs, you would expect them to be smart enough to assess threat and invalidate the idea of a true tank. And, without a true tank, I don't think you're going to see the idea of a true healer. Support skills that limit mobility, etc will become much more important when there is no longer one damage sponge to be clicked on.
edit - partial confirmation by /u/SmokejumperSOE : Nailed it! You are on exactly the right path here. Now start to consider the potential of how the AI can interact that way and what it does for group dynamics and you'll start seeing why we think this is going to be a BLAST. (Not that we're a MOBA, of course. Just being clear. ;)
Double Edit - Just to be clear my point is we will still have roles, but they will be redefined. Your "tank" will be more about disruption - with smarter opponents a meatwall really serves no purpose; why would any mild-intelligence creature attack it instead of bypassing it unless the meatwall was given real threat when avoided? Your healer will still heal, but dedicated heals become less important and support skills become more important. If you want to read up on how toxic dedicated healers can be to a game I advise reading from a real designer and not me (http://www.rtsguru.com/game/435/article/3433/Morello-Talks-Soraka-and-Healer-Classes.html).
